domingo, febrero 04, 2007

Israel ¿tiene derecho a existir?

Christian Science Monitor: Israel's Right to Exist is an obstacle to

Posted by: "Ami Isseroff"   ami_iss

Sun Feb 4, 2007 1:02 am (PST)

Christian Science Monitor: Israel's Right to Exist is an obstacle to peace
03.02. 2007
Original content copyright by the author
Zionism & Israel Center

The powers that be across the ocean need to have "peace" talks and to "resolve" the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict at all costs, because of the problem with Iraq, and the problem with
Iran. We are told that Arab states are anxious to reach a peaceful Israeli-Palestinian solution, so
that they can support US policy and let the US deal with Iran for them. It doesn't occur to anyone
that if Arabs want the US and Israel to take care of Iran, then they should be the ones to make
concessions regarding Israel, and not the other way round.

To show "movement" toward peace, direction, it is necessary, according to the conventional wisdom,
to have a peace partner. Alas, the Palestinian Authority is controlled by the Hamas. The Hamas
repeat day and night that they will abide by their charter, and never make peace with Israel. In
return for Israel withdrawing to the borders of 1949, they will grant a Hudna like the one just
concluded between Fatah and Hamas that lasted less than a day, or the other one concluded today.
Common sense would dictate that as long as there are not two partners willing to make peace, there
cannot be peace negotiations. Yet on the other hand, the powers that be, require such negotiations.

Writing from Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, a metropolis famous for championing human rights and logic, John
V. Whitbeck offers the solution
Those who recognize the critical importance of Israeli-Palestinian peace and truly seek a decent
future for both peoples must recognize that the demand that Hamas recognize "Israel's right to
exist" is unreasonable, immoral, and impossible to meet. Then, they must insist that this roadblock
to peace be removed, the economic siege of the Palestinian territories be lifted, and the pursuit of
peace with some measure of justice be resumed with the urgency it deserves.

Source: www.

That's right, Israel's right to exist is a roadblock to peace according to Whitbeck and the CSM. The
article was of course timed to coincide with the meeting of the quartet.

Whitbeck arrives at his conclusion by a tortuous path of "reasoning" and euphemisms about
Palestinian self-respect and the usual canards about Israeli expansionism (look at Israel on the map
to see what expansionism we are talking about). He pours the best vintage Middle East establishment
bumph that petrodollars can buy.

It is a grand performance in the best tradition, intended to make you lose sight of the basics. The
reason the Hamas government is being boycotted by the West at present is that they announce that
they are not willing to make peace with Israel. No matter how much wishful thinking is applied to
the problem, the Hamas opposition to peace does not change, and is reiterated at every opportunity.
Western aid to the Palestinian Authority was supposed to promote peace process, not Jihad.

It is important to go back to the sources, and see exactly what Mr. Whitbeck and the CSM are
promoting. What is this peace-loving and self-respecting Palestinian Hamas movement? The Hamas
charter states:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it
obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf
consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be
squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

Whitbeck is talking about a movement that advocates genocide and will not relinquish any part of the
land. This is the movement that he wants to recognize. This is the movement that Christian Science
Monitor wants to legitimize. Here is the Hamas peace plan, embodied in their charter, which
Christian Science Monitor and Mr. Whitbeck want the West to adopt:

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals
and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

And the following, also taken from the Hamas Charter, is probably the origin of Mr. Whitbeck's
views, and those of his Arab hosts, about Israeli expansionism and Palestinian 'self-respect':

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will
have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan
is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of
what we are saying."

Mr. Whitbeck no doubt believes in the validity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a document
forged by the Tsarist police, which is sold all over the Arab world.

Incredible as it seems, what it amounts to, stripped of sophistry and cant about Zionist
expansionism, is that Christian Science Monitor has come out in favor of genocide and Jihad.
Israel's right to exist is therefore an obstacle to "peace."

The enthusiasm of CSM and of Whitbeck's Saudi masters for making a deal with the Hamas is really
strange if the purpose is really to allow action against Iran, since Iran is actively supporting the

The real danger to Israeli interests and the interests of peace in the Middle East has never been
from the fringe radical leftists and extreme reactionaries like Rabbi David Weiss of the Netureh
Karteh, who make so much noise, and who are characterized by the New York Times as "Liberals". They
attract a lot of attention from worriers over the "new anti-semitism," but they have no political
clout in the United States.

With the virtual collapse of US policy in Iraq looming ahead, the neo-conservative pro-Israel line
that was popular in Washington is in jeopardy. The replacement for the neo-conservative strategy may
well be a "rescue" operation by the "old hands" of the State Department and stalwarts of Republican
Middle East policy. These are people like James Baker III and the representatives of Arab petroleum
interests, the pillars of conservativism and "realistic" approaches to the Middle East.

This group have always had the same line: U.S. backing of Israel jeopardizes American interests in
the Middle East. Interestingly, declassified materials reveal that on the eve of the Six Day war in
1967, this line was pushed by the Aramco company and by US Ambassador to Syria, Hugh Smythe. Smythe
claimed to represent the considered opinions of the US diplomatic corps. They urged the US to
abandon Israel, as they always do. Whitbeck's article no doubt represents the public expression of a
campaign that is going on behind the scenes. The same line is apparent in Arab world journals. When
it appears in the US, it could be an alarming harbinger of what is coming.

>From my perspective, relating not only to my self-respect as an Israeli, but also to my physical
integrity, it appears that Mr. Whitbeck and the Christian Science Monitor are much worse than an
obstacle to peace. They are hazardous to my health, and the health of my loved ones. They are
hazardous to the decency and self-respect of the Western nations. And remember, when they are done
making "peace" by eliminating my right to exist, you may be next.

Ami Isseroff

Updates and comments - Since I wrote the above, the Middle East Quartet (sounds like a Jazz group)
met, and announced the continuation of sanctions against the Hamas. That is what articles like
Whitbeck's are really about. Zvi Bar'el in Ha'aretz explains the Arab position, which is that Hamas
is a fact of life that has to be dealt with, and the best way to deal with them is to get them to
accept the Arab peace plan, which includes recognition of Israel. The only fly in the ointment is
that Hamas refuses to agree. However, only pedants worry about such details.

At least one person took me to task (by e-mail) for taking Whitbeck literally, but Whitbeck must be
taken literally. He tries to make it seem as though "recognizing Israel's right to exist" is just a
slogan -- some sort of Zionist plot cooked up by Henry Kissinger. But the fact is, that recognizing
Hamas is tantamount to giving the go ahead for the liquidation of Israel. The position was put quite
eloquently by Peter H., who commented at :

How exactly does Meshal's interview contradict what Whitbeck wrote? Actually, it seems like Meehal
and Whitbeck are saying the same thing: that Israel's existence is a fact of life, but that Hamas
cannot recognize the morality of its creation, since that would be tantamount to morally justifying
the dispossesion of Palestinians.

That was my point. There is no contradiction. Both Meshal and Whitbeck, along with racist advocate
of genocide and ethnic cleansing Peter H., want to destroy Israel. Except for the fact that the
"dispossesion of the Palestinians" was not the result of the creation of Israel, Peter has it right.
Whitbeck and Meshal are saying the same thing. It is like saying that the Czech republic has to be
wiped out, because recognizing it would be tantamount to recongizing the morality of "dispossesion"
of World War II Nazi sympathizers from the Sudetensland.

1 comentario:

Ahmedinajad dijo...

Dear Sir,

The following issue can destroy ISLAM or ISRAEL; study it thoroughly to see if there is any truth to it.

READ THE FOLLOWING PASSAGES FROM THE BIBLE AS IT HAS IMPLICATIONS ON THE WAR AGAINST TERROR/ISLAM and the claim of Israel that god gave them the land. If the child is an infant than the Judeo-Christian version becomes null and void and we are wasting our time and resources i.e. we could save trillions of dollars and create a more peaceful world rather than fighting against Islam the religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all).


Please note this is not a competition between faiths but an attempt to decipher fact from fiction.

Genesis 21:14 Contemporary English version se below link;&version=46;

Early the next morning Abraham gave Hagar an animal skin full of water and some bread. Then he put the boy on her shoulder and sent them away.

And Hagar bore Abram a son; and Abram called the name of his son, whom Hagar bore, Ish’mael. Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore Ish’mael to Abram.
Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.

At Genesis 22 Abraham had only 2 sons others came later. The Quran mentions that it was Ishmael that was sacrificed hence the reference in genesis 22:2 your only son can only mean someone has substituted Ishmael names for Isaac!!

NOT ROMAN NUMERALS (I, II, III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X) NB no concept of zero in roman numerals.

100 years old – 86 years old = 14 ADD 3 YEARS FOR ISSAC’S WEANING


Carefully read several times the above passage and then tell me the mental picture you get between the mother child interactions what is the age of the child. If the mental picture is that of a 17 year old child being carried on the shoulder of his mother, being physically placed in the bush, crying like a baby, mother having to give him water to drink, than the Islamic viewpoint is null and void. Why is there no verbal communications between mother and (17 YEAR OLD) child?

GENESIS: 21:14 - 21
So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, and gave it to Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, along with the (17 YEAR OLD) child, and sent her away. And she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba. When the water in the skin was gone, she cast the (17 YEAR OLD) child under one of the bushes. Then she went, and sat down over against him a good way off, about the distance of a bowshot; for she said, “Let me not look upon the death of the (17 YEAR OLD) child.” And as she sat over against him, the (17 YEAR OLD) child lifted up his voice and wept. And God heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven, and said to her, “What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not; for God has heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad where he is. Arise, lift up the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and hold him fast with your hand; for I will make him a great nation.” Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the skin with water, and gave the (17 YEAR OLD) lad a drink. And God was with the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.

The age of Ishmael at this stage is crucial to the Abrahamic faiths. If he is 17 than the JUDEO/CHRISTIAN point of view about the Abrahamic covenant is correct. This has devastating theological consequences of unimaginable proportions.

This makes the conflict between Ishmael and Isaac and there descendants a work of fiction. I would strongly suggest it is clear cut case of racial discrimination and nothing to do with god almighty. The scribes have deliberately tried to make Isaac the only son and legitimate heir to the throne of Abraham??

Please can you rationally explain this anomaly?

I have asked many persons including my nephews and nieces - unbiased minds with no religious backgrounds but with reasonable command of the English language about this passage and they all agree that the child in the passage is an infant.

For background info on the future religion of mankind see the following websites:
(MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE),,31200-galloway_060806,00.html

HOLY QURAN CHAPTER 37 verses 101 - 122

101. So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.

102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"

103. So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah., and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),

104. We called out to him "O Abraham!

105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

106. For this was obviously a trial-

107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:

108. And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:

109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"

110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

111. For he was one of our believing Servants.

112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.

113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.

114. Again (of old) We bestowed Our favour on Moses and Aaron,

115. And We delivered them and their people from (their) Great Calamity;

116. And We helped them, so they overcame (their troubles);

117. And We gave them the Book which helps to make things clear;

118. And We guided them to the Straight Way.

119. And We left (this blessing) for them among generations (to come) in later times:

120. "Peace and salutation to Moses and Aaron!"

121. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

122. For they were two of our believing Servants.


Therefore the claim that god gave the land to Israel is destroyed without the need of any WMD’s.


Volume 4, Book 55, Number 583:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The first lady to use a girdle was the mother of Ishmael. She used a girdle so that she might hide her tracks from Sarah. Abraham brought her and her son Ishmael while she was suckling him, to a place near the Ka'ba under a tree on the spot of Zam-zam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Mecca, nor was there any water So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ishmael's mother followed him saying, "O Abraham! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?" She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her Then she asked him, "Has Allah ordered you to do so?" He said, "Yes." She said, "Then He will not neglect us," and returned while Abraham proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniya where they could not see him, he faced the Ka'ba, and raising both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayers:
'O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Your Sacred House (Kaba at Mecca) in order, O our Lord, that they may offer prayer perfectly. So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.' (14.37) Ishmael's mother went on suckling Ishmael and drinking from the water (she had).
When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him (i.e. Ishmael) tossing in agony; She left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of Safa was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from Safa and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached the Marwa mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between Safa and Marwa) seven times."
The Prophet said, "This is the source of the tradition of the walking of people between them (i.e. Safa and Marwa). When she reached the Marwa (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, 'O, (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?" And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zam-zam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hand in this way, and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it."
The Prophet added, "May Allah bestow Mercy on Ishmael's mother! Had she let the Zam-zam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zam-zam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth." The Prophet further added, "Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, 'Don't be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allah which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allah never neglects His people.' The House (i.e. Kaba) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kada'. They landed in the lower part of Mecca where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, 'This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.' They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water)." The Prophet added, "Ishmael's mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, 'Do you allow us to stay with you?" She replied, 'Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.' They agreed to that." The Prophet further said, "Ishmael's mother was pleased with the whole situation as she used to love to enjoy the company of the people. So, they settled there, and later on they sent for their families who came and settled with them so that some families became permanent residents there. The child (i.e. Ishmael) grew up and learnt Arabic from them and (his virtues) caused them to love and admire him as he grew up, and when he reached the age of puberty they made him marry a woman from amongst them.